Skr13

Graphics Card choice dilemma...

GTX 660 TI vs HD 7950   7 members have voted

  1. 1. So based on Pros and Cons, which card to choose?

    • GTX 660 TI
      0
    • HD 7950

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26 posts in this topic

Hi guys!

As some of you know, i´m about to buy a new graphics card in the next weeks, after being 5 months with a Nvidia 210.

I have a 1920x1080 LCD screen by the way.

I want to keep the card at least 1.5-2 Years.

GTX 660 TI vs HD 7950

GTX 660 TI: Cheaper; Lower power consumption; Better drivers; Better performance in BF3 and others

7950: 3GB VRAM; Better AA performance; More Memory Bandwidth(240GB/s) and larger bus(384-bit).

Thanks for your time! :)

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I think HD 7950 is more future-proof, especially with PowerTune Boost technology.

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I think HD 7950 is more future-proof, especially with PowerTune Boost technology.

Gotta Agree.. Better to Go With AMD This Time....... :) :)

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I'd personally go for a HD 7950. Easily overclocable to HD 7970 performance.

At the end of the day though both cards would be awesome for 1080p.

I would suggest you choose what YOU most want out of the two.

I find that other people are quick to spend other people's money for them.

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I think HD 7950 is more future-proof, especially with PowerTune Boost technology.

I don´t like 7950B, consumes a lot for just small performance increase over reference.

If i choose 7950 will be a factory OC card, like Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, Sapphire with less than 1.25V.

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I don´t like 7950B, consumes a lot for just small performance increase over reference.

If i choose 7950 will be a factory OC card, like Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, Sapphire with less than 1.25V.

You're afraid of EU regulations? ;)

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You're afraid of EU regulations? ;)

In the future, it can slowdown GPU sector inovation and performance jumping.

If they limit 320GB/s bandwidth, next generation cards like 8970 or GTX 780 can be affected, besides power consumption restrictions.

But right now, my question is about 7950 or 660 Ti :)

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i prefer Nvidia ,no matter what / price / etc ... Got bad issues with ATI .. i got a dilemma too, dunno what i have to buy, Evga 670 FTW 4gb or Evga 680 FTW 4gb . the $ 100 difference makes me think twice

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i prefer Nvidia ,no matter what / price / etc ... Got bad issues with ATI .. i got a dilemma too, dunno what i have to buy, Evga 670 FTW 4gb or Evga 680 FTW 4gb . the $ 100 difference makes me think twice

Go for the bog standard GTX670 FTW 2GB I had a GTX 680 FTW 4GB. The etxra ram makes no difference I can assure you. The GTX 680 isnt worth it over 670 tbh. Save yourself the $100.

Only thing I did like about the GTX 680 FTW was that it was very quiet.

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:lol: :lol:

Imagine the police confiscate my graphics card, then go to jail and tell the guys, i´m here because i used a HD 7950 Boost 24/7.

The others say, i´m here because kill my wife, kids and dog. :mellow:

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You could consider a 3GB GTX 660 Ti in the KFA2 GTX 660Ti Ex OC where it performs within 9% of a stock GTX 670 from what I recall.

For my 2p Skr13, I believe it's worth paying a bit more for the popular GTX 670 as you seem to loose >30% performance Vs the GTX 660 Ti - that's a lot for a card already worth the £250-mark where you're limited to playing mostly Medium graphics settings at 1080p. Looking 2-years down the line I can see the GTX 670 being a better option for you or anyone else. My rule of thumb is avoid the stock coolers (80c/40dB), always check the reviews whereby you'll see the temps in the mid-60cs and noise down to mid-30dBs under full-load.

Or look at it this way: GTX 660Ti £250/24=£10.41pm / GTX 670 £320/24=£13.33pm - that's a 28% percentage difference but you are getting what you pay for. Any GPU upgrade should be a treat to play with and being a hobby it's worth the initially outlay so long as your not leaving yourself penniless.

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You could consider a 3GB GTX 660 Ti in the KFA2 GTX 660Ti Ex OC where it performs within 9% of a stock GTX 670 from what I recall.

For my 2p Skr13, I believe it's worth paying a bit more for the popular GTX 670 as you seem to loose >30% performance Vs the GTX 660 Ti - that's a lot for a card already worth the £250-mark where you're limited to playing mostly Medium graphics settings at 1080p. Looking 2-years down the line I can see the GTX 670 being a better option for you or anyone else. My rule of thumb is avoid the stock coolers (80c/40dB), always check the reviews whereby you'll see the temps in the mid-60cs and noise down to mid-30dBs under full-load.

Or look at it this way: GTX 660Ti £250/24=£10.41pm / GTX 670 £320/24=£13.33pm - that's a 28% percentage difference but you are getting what you pay for. Any GPU upgrade should be a treat to play with and being a hobby it's worth the initially outlay so long as your not leaving yourself penniless.

Thanks for your post SMiThaYe, My initial option was wait for GTX 670 price drop to 300 EUR, that´s why i´m waiting so many months, but seems that will not happen very soon unfortunatelly...

Stock coolers aren´t a problem, i expect to buy some aftermarket cooler to keep temps and noise down, but reference 660 TI PCB is really small and i don´t like it.

Future-proof HD 7950 is a better option due 1GB more Vram and higher bandwidth/bus.

But i had problems with AMD/Ati in the past...

Choise is not easy :)

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Thanks for your post SMiThaYe, My initial option was wait for GTX 670 price drop to 300 EUR, that´s why i´m waiting so many months, but seems that will not happen very soon unfortunatelly...

Stock coolers aren´t a problem, i expect to buy some aftermarket cooler to keep temps and noise down, but reference 660 TI PCB is really small and i don´t like it.

Future-proof HD 7950 is a better option due 1GB more Vram and higher bandwidth/bus.

But i had problems with AMD/Ati in the past...

Choise is not easy :)

If You Are Considering AMD,I Think You Should Wait ,AMD Is dropping Their Prices Heavily ,In a Month or So You'll be Able Buy a 7970 For Your Price ...

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If You Are Considering AMD,I Think You Should Wait ,AMD Is dropping Their Prices Heavily ,In a Month or So You'll be Able Buy a 7970 For Your Price ...

Man that was difficult to read, why do you Type With Capitals!? ;) Regarding your post, I know waiting for further AMD drops makes it an appealing option but you have to look at what is happening right now. Anything a month down the line is rumour anyway and a lot can change in that time.

SKr13: To avoid jumping back-and-forth from AMD to Nvidia... make a list of 10 games you currently play and check reviews of min/avg/max framerates for optimal gameplay and calculate the percentages - if there's not much in it then it comes down to price, TPD, driver experience and manufacturer warranties. Have you considered watercooling if your going to go down the stock cooler route?

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SKr13: To avoid jumping back-and-forth from AMD to Nvidia... make a list of 10 games you currently play and check reviews of min/avg/max framerates for optimal gameplay and calculate the percentages - if there's not much in it then it comes down to price, TPD, driver experience and manufacturer warranties. Have you considered watercooling if your going to go down the stock cooler route?

I´ve thinking about this "list" with games that i play regular, but most of them are older, so even a 2010 card can play them of MAX Settings.

Games like Sniper Elite V2 or Dirt Showdown use DirectCompute and AMD card´s provide better performance due GCN horsepower with that architecture.

In the other hand, Battlefield 3, Crysis 2, take better advantage from Nvidia Kepler.

The question is more about near future titles: Crysis 3, Battlefield 4, Cod Black Ops 2, GTA 5, Assassins Creed 3...

About water cooling, i don´t pretend to use it for now, some Arctic Cooling solution can solve default design Temps and Noise issues.

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What will make HD7950 faster than GTX660Ti is not 3GB vs. 2GB of VRAM, but ROPs, memory bandwidth (MSAA) and overclocking. The 'future-proofness' comes from 32 ROPs and 384-bit bus of the flagship HD7970 daddy. That means, the 7950 can be overclocked to surpass GTX680/7970 GE in performance, something that can't be done with the GTX660Ti. If you don't plan on overclocking, grab the GTX660Ti. Remember you are comparing HD7950 to GTX660Ti. So you cannot say that Kepler has an advantage in ABCD since now you are comparing 2 non-flagship GPUs. At stock speeds, 880-900mhz factory-preoverclocked 7950s are as fast as factory pre-overclocked 660Tis, but overclocked, there is no contest. Whether you want the added power consumption is up to you.

Here is NCIX's comparison of HD7950 vs. GTX660Ti in BF3:

HD7950 and GTX660Ti are actually just 1-5 fps apart in BF3: http://techreport.co...card-reviewed/4

But once you overclock, HD7950 should be no slower than GTX660Ti OC in BF3: http://www.hardocp.c...s_670_hd_7950/3

BTW, with latest drivers, NV is no longer faster in BF3: http://www.hardocp.c...o_card_review/5

Crysis 2, NV has no advantage at all for GTX660Ti over 7950, actually the 7950 is faster: http://www.xbitlabs....ti/10_crys2.png

Moving on to other games, AC3 should be a piece of cake since it's a console port, same for BO2. BF4 is too far away. Crysis 3 supposedly will murder GPUs so even GTX680 won't be enough to max it out if the CEO of Crytek's statements are true. I would never buy any GPU to future-proof for Crysis 3. When CryTek truly decides to make a GPU demanding game, even a GTX690 will be crippled like 8800GTX SLI was when Crysis 1 launched. Worst case you could always resell the 7950/660Ti and buy a next generation GPU for Crysis 3 if it is really that demanding. GTA5 is also not launching until spring 2013 but with mods I can see that game using more than 2GB VRAM.

Not sure how sales are where you live or you could try to see if HD7970 or GTX670 hit 300 EUR this holiday season. You are buying at the end of this generation so the value proposition isn't there without a large sale. You didn't mention if PhysX is important to you. It's a cool perk for Borderlands 2, although there is a way to enable it via a .ini hack and force it to the CPU but NV cards will still run it faster.The question is with how horribly unoptimized GTA IV was, will HD7950/660Ti even be able to run GTA V with mods maxed out? Hmm....

Really, to me the defining characteristics between 7950 and 660Ti are overclocking and more consistent performance in a wider variety of games for the 7950 with or without MSAA. For example, Dirt Showdown, Sniper Elite V2, Sleeping Dogs. In all of those the 7950 is much faster. Hitman Absolution will also use Global Illumination similar to Dirt Showdown. OCed vs. OCed the HD7950 wins easily with performance more similar to GTX670 OC. If you are not going to overclock, an after-market 7950 is about as fast as the MSI Power Edition 660Ti bu the NV card would offer slightly lower power consumption. I wouldn't waste any $ extra on 3GB GTX660Ti as a stock GTX660Ti isn't fast enough to take advantage of 3GB of VRAM. I wouldn't get an HD7950 and then get an AC after-market solution. Might as well get a quiet 7950 like Gigabyte Windforce 3x. Alternatively, just wait another 6 months for next generation as NV might offer GTX680 level of performance for $349 (349 EUR?) if the larger Kepler GK110 occupies the flagship spot. It really depends if you need a card to play games this winter or not :)

HD7950 @ 925mhz is just 7% slower than GTX670: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2012/test-amd-radeon-hd-7950-mit-925-mhz/3/

MSI TwinFrozr 3 or Gigabyte Windforce 3x 7950s should be able to overclock to 1050mhz on stock voltage or well below 1.175V. I wouldn't get any of the GPU Boost versions, besides the Vapor-X 7950. If you have had driver issues with AMD cards, then go with NV for your own peace of mind.

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Ok BestJinjo, I did not say that 3GB gives extra performance, but is clearly a bonus.

24 ROPs vs 32 ROPs, Kepler and GCN are very different, for example 7870 has 32 ROPs but is about 10% slower 1080p than GTX 660 Ti 24 ROPs, and Fermi 580 had double ROPs and Bus relatively to 660 TI, but perform a bit worse.

Memory bandwidth is a bit important, but for most of current games isn´t the decisive factor to compare cards performance.

I can say Kepler have advantage or GCN have advantage even cards are not flagship, because facts(games) talk for themselves.

I remember Assassins Creed 2 with my 560 TI, can´t use all settings on highest details, so for a console port is not so weak in hardware requirements, and Assassions Creed 3 should be more "heavy".

I will never buy a card based on 1 game , if Crysis 3 comes that demanding, my option will be reduce graphics options, no problem.

Physx isn´t that important to me, and i don´t like Borderlands 2 , to cartoon for me.

I´m gonna change default cooler, don´t care if is Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, i always prefer steady rotations from fan, like 900RPM, from AC :)

If i found 7950 or 660 ti under 250 EUR mark, i wouldn´t think twice and sure pick one of them, don´t care if is Nvidia or AMD.

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My main reference to 32 ROP / 384 bit interface of 7950 is not to compare it to ROPs/memory bus of GTX660Ti but how each respective card compares to their flagship family card: 7950 vs. 7970 GE and how GTX660Ti compares to 680.

The 7950 is a slightly cut-down 7970 card on the shader & TMU side. That means with overclocking, you can surpass the flagship 7970 card since key backbone of the GPU is intact. GTX660Ti is a physically crippled SKU in terms of ROPs and memory bus compared to GTX670/680 cards. Therefore, you cannot really overclock it on air easily to pass the flagship NV card. That's the main point I was making and for this reason you cannot really compare "Kepler to GCN" in this instance so broadly since GTX660Ti is a 25% neutered Kepler chip in ROP/memory controllers, but HD7950 is more like a factory underclocked GCN card with slightly less shaders and TMUs.

If you are going to buy an AC fan, then 7950 makes even more sense since 200-250W of power dissipation would make GCN overclocking a breeze. The full intact ROPs and memory bus of the 7950 is what allows it to match a GTX680 once it reaches 1050mhz. GTX660Ti can only dream of that and 7950 often scales to 1150-1200mhz on a good cooler. Of course if you have no intention of overclocking, then it's not really important. Think of it this way, HD7950 is just 5-6% slower than 7970 is at 925mhz GPU clock. The more your overclock it, the more it performs like a flagship card.

I think you are thinking too hard about it. If you value power consumption, won't overclock, want a peace of mind of NV drivers since AMD drivers seem to have given you problems, go with GTX660Ti. If you want to overclock for way more performance and willing to increase power consumption for that extra speed, then the 7950 is the faster card without question. HD7950 beats HD7970GE and GTX680 when overclocked. If that's not a selling point for its value proposition, I don't know what else is:

http://www.techpower...Vapor-X/31.html

For next generation games if HD7970GE and GTX680 are too slow, then GTX660Ti has no chance. In terms of future-proofing I can't think of any reason why 660Ti will be better than a 7950 since it's not faster in any GPU demanding game I can think of besides BF3 by a hair or some game that uses PhysX like BL2 or Batman AC. If you overclock the 7950, it will beat GTX660Ti probably 95% of the time since 7970 GE is faster than GTX680 and 7950 OC can surpass both of those. If you won't overclock the 7950, at 880-900mhz factory after-market versions, it's exactly as fast as GTX660Ti after-market cards are but uses a bit more power, although 660Ti performs worse with MSAA.

The reason I asked you why you bothered getting the AC after-market cooler, wouldn't it make sense to buy a quiet GTX670 card like Gigabyte Windforce 3x with that $? Those coolers aren't cheap. Personally I'd rather spend that 50-60 Euro on a faster GPU like the GTX670.

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BestJinjo, i agree that GTX 660 Ti will not provide same overclocking headroom as 7950, but don´t forget that GTX 660 TI is meant to compete with HD 7870, and as you know, because of HD 7870 stock 1GHz, is not a good option for users that like Overclock, what i don´t mind.

I go skip some points of your comment, to reach AC question, i already have a AC Xtreme Plus from my previous card and i can mod it to fit the Nvidia card, but in case of AMD 7950 is different due GPU "rotation" that makes full contact with chip impossible.

Nvidia Kepler GK 104 PCB

AMD 7900 PCB

My initial plan was to wait for GTX 670 price reach 300 EUR, but that didn´t happen yet, and Nvidia seems to keep this prices for more time. GTX 670 with some "soft" OC easily reach big brother performance the same way 7950 does with 7970.

But i can tell you that right now and after many opinions i´m more inclinated to AMD 7950 than GTX 660 TI ;)

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Hey, sorry I didn't catch the part where you already had the cooler. If you intend to use it, then it seems any HD7900 card is out of the question without taking off that shim. In general I find 300 EUR a lot of money for either GTX660Ti or HD7950. HD7950 is now 9 months old. Do you guys have any sales around Xmas holidays or New Years in Portugal? I mean is there a good time to buy a GPU in your country, or do they stay priced high for the entire generation (other than NV/AMD official MSRP price drops) before being discontinued once a new generation of cards launches?

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BestJinjo, prices still high in Portugal, and no, there in not perfect time to buy a GPU, even Pixmania PT final price is about 10 EUR more expensive than Germany Pixmania, due Taxes.

When some products gets discontinued price decrease a bit, but if HD 8870 comes for 280 USD/EUR with nice performance better than 7950, 7950 won´t be a option anymore.

But that´s alot of time to wait, and usually i don´t like first revision of AIB cards, many of them could have design problems(cooler,pcb,vrm,unstable oc) like happen in many other technology sectors.

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Skr13, a lot of new games are launching within a month (NFS: MW, BO2, Assassin's Creed 3, Hitman Absolution and Medal of Honor Warfighter). That's 5 new data points for seeing how the cards perform. Even Medal of Honor in 2 days is another data point for Frostbite 2.0 engine. You can compare HD7950 vs. 660Ti to see if either GPU runs it faster and also how also 7970GE vs. 680 stack up because that's where HD7950 OC will end up. Do you guys get the promotion for Sleeping Dogs with HD7950s?

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BestJinjo, yes new games are coming and i want to read some of reviews ;)

As i know, no promotion with Sleeping Dogs when buy HD 7950, but GTX 660 Ti have Borderlands 2 game with it.

I heard that tomorrow AMD will make some announcement, maybe new drivers or some further price drops...

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This is uncanny, I came on this website to compare these cards, and when I couldn't understand everything, I came to the forums. Karma's cool sometimes :)

I'm confused. I want to do some gaming, mostly minecraft, but maybe more powerful games like battlefield 3, portal 2, and anything that catches my eye in steam. I also want to do recording with Camtasia (my uncle had a license that he got off his work) and edit in Sony Vegas. Which card shall I go for, or should I wait for a 670/680 to drop into this price point, or wait for new cards?

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