BestJinjo

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About BestJinjo

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    United States

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    HD7970 @ 1150mhz in CF
  1. SMiThaYe, I think for those who enjoy PhysX effects, NV is the way to go no doubt about it. I don't like to rely on 1 website for GPU testing as sometimes they miss out on issues just like GameGPU didn't mention stuttering problems on HD7900 cards in BL2. Similarly stated, Far Cry 3 is a stutter-fest on GTX690 compared to HD7970 GE CF and most reviewed didn't show this through FPS testing alone: http://videos.pcgame...-in-Slow-Motion http://www.pcgamesha...hmarks-1036726/ It appears both companies have stuttering issues and it's practically impossible this generation to get the best setup as a result. I hope these drives issues get resolved by both sides, although admittedly AMD's cards have suffered more in latest games. It just pains me to see games like Far Cry 3 with worse graphics than Crysis 1 that perform so poorly on $1000 of GPU setups: Consolification is killing PC gaming. We keep upgrading every new generation and games just get more GPU intensive without getting much better looking. Programmers are optimizing games like crap (Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs, Assassin's Creed 3, NFS:MW all have serious optimization/performance issues and not a single one of those games looks as good as Crysis 1). I wouldn't mind Crysis 3 bringing bringing $1000 worth of GPUs to 25 fps but it better look like it's worth it 5 years since Crysis 1 came out and I am still searching for a game that wowed me technically/graphically-wise the same way Crysis 1 did back in 2007.
  2. Their testing is confusing. They label the graph as PhysX High but in the game control settings, PhysX is disabled. The only way to get PhysX to work with AMD cards is to use the .ini hack in BL2 and offload it to the CPU, in which case the performance hit is huge, and yet GameGPU's graphs do not show this on the Radeons. Also, FPS testing in BL2 doesn't reveal the significant stutter HD7970Ge has compared to GTX680: More or less the moral of the story is some games run way better on NV (BL2, Assassin's Creed 3, WOW, Shogun 2, etc.) and others on AMD (Sleeping Dogs, Hitman Absolution, Dirt Showdown, Metro 2033, etc.). It's just not possible this generation to buy the best GPU for most games as was the case with 8800GTX/280/285/480/580. We even had a situation of GTX680 dominating HD7970 for at least 10 months in BF3 and now it's reversed: I hope GTX780 is a full-fledged GK110 so the choice for the flagship GPU next round is more clear cut! :)
  3. That's just 1 title. Cherry-picking like that doesn't work. There are other games where GTX480 trails HD7950 Boost by almost 50%: http://www.techspot....arks/page5.html You gotta look at the average performance in modern games to make a reasonable assessment of their comparable performance. HD7950 925-950mhz cards are just 2-3% behind GTX670: http://www.techpower...2_Boost/28.html or "GeForce GTX 670 is 12% faster than the Radeon HD 7950 and just 2% faster than the 7950 Boost. However the GTX 670 is 27% more expensive than both cards," http://www.techspot....rds/page12.html Saying HD7950 is about as fast as GTX480 in modern title is grossly misleading. HD7950 V2/Boost is neck and neck with GTX670. With overclocking, it can beat HD7970Ghz/GTX680: http://www.legionhar...t_clock,13.html On that note, imo Assassin's Creed 3 looks like garbage given the level of performance it offers. Compare the graphics vs. performance in AC3 vs. Witcher 2. AC3 is a terrible port.
  4. Asif, I honestly don't know which way NV will go - a 7 billion transistor GK110 with 12-13 SMXs or rather a pure gaming chip like GK104 but larger in size, without all the compute related features like ECC and double precision transistors that take up extra space. At higher resolutions with the latest drivers HD7970 Ghz is now 11% faster than GTX680 and after-market HD7970 cards are approaching 19-20%. http://www.techpower...X_Turbo/28.html or http://www.techspot....rds/page12.html That means GTX780 needs to make up at least 10% just to come to parity with HD7970Ghz and then whatever extra on top is what's needed to beat HD8970. You can see how hypothetical math would work: GTX680 = 100% HD7970Ghz = 111% Let's assume HD8970 is 20% faster than HD7970 Ghz = 111% x 1.2 = 132% If GTX780 is 50% faster than GTX680 = 100% x 1.5 = 150% Then GTX780 will be just 14% faster than HD8970 which is not a lot (150% / 132%). Of course I have no idea if HD8970 will be 20% faster than HD7970Ghz or if GTX780 will be 50% faster than GTX680 or more. At 1920x1200 or below NV continues to do well and I expect GTX780 to beat HD8970 at those resolutions easily. However, the higher the resolution, the more monitors a gamer has, the larger the lead for the HD7970Ghz. That means GTX780 will need to make up a ton of deficit left by GTX680 for gamers on 2560x1440+ monitors or those with multi-monitors. In some of those cases GTX680 trails by 20%! "That said, we have to wonder why anyone would bother with the GeForce GTX 680 4GB for extreme resolutions when the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition was constantly faster at both 5040x1050 and 7680x1600. In fact at 7680x1600 the 7970 GHz Edition was on average 20% faster than the GeForce GTX 680 4GB in the half dozen games that we tested with." http://www.legionhar..._680_4gb,6.html
  5. Right but back when you bought it prices for HD7950 were probably not that low and also GTX670 OC Windforce performed faster than HD7970 925mhz with drivers back then Also, RadeonPro wasn't released yet so Micro-stutter was a more serious issue on CF than SLI. I think you'd be better off selling the GTX670 next time you want to upgrade and get a faster single-GPU. Perhaps you can dump GTX670 next year if you really need an upgrade or turn down settings so that you can last until Maxwell in 2014. I mean in theory if you really wanted to you could sell a GTX670 now and grab a 2x HD7950 with the game bundles. I bet the 670 has a higher resale value than 7950. I see you are using a Catleap. Ya with games like Far Cry 3, Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs and upcoming Metro Last Light and Crysis 3 a single GTX670 will need to turn down some settings. But sometimes it's not worth it to spend $600-800 just to be able to use 4xMSAA and everything on Ultra. Most games today look nearly identical at Very High with minimal MSAA. And certain settings like HDAO/ambient occlusion barely add visuals while incurring a huge performance hit. MSAA can be substituted with FXAA to get a reasonable tradeoff in performance vs. image quality. It's part of the game though if you went with a high resolution display. I am just not sure the next generation is worth upgrading to. I have a feeling once PS4/Xbox 720 launch, in 2014 we might see next generation game engines like Unreal Engine 4.0 and those truly next gen games are going to crush GTX780/GTX670 SLI. It seems every time there is a new console generation, there is an expected exponential increase in PC graphics for about 3-4 years and then a period of stagnation begins. If you look at a game like Far Cry 3 or Hitman that use some new DX11 effects/lightning, modern HD7970/GTX680 get crushed at your resolution: http://www.guru3d.co...enchmark,6.html That tells me even if GTX780 is 75% faster than GTX680 it will only be enough to max out games like Hitman and Far Cry 3 but nothing will be left over for truly next generation DX11 games in 2014 and beyond. It's almost like 2013 will be the worst time to upgrade since NV/AMD are still stuck on 28nm and that means power consumption constraints. More likely it will be an incremental increase from HD7970Ghz/GTX680 (maybe 30-50%) but that's just not enough when 4xMSAA often results in a 30-35% performance hit on its own with deferred lighting engines of today. Do you guys think GTX780 will be as fast as a GTX690? I am not so sure. Perhaps I am wrong expecting an exponential increase in graphics starting in 2014. Maybe developers will continue to use current Frostbite 2.0, CryEngine 3.4 and will hold off on adopting a truly next gen engine like UE4 (or something else). To me all the current game engines already look outdated and nothing special. I feel like graphics have barely improved from Crysis 1/Warhead days but performance keeps getting worse and worse. Games like BF3 and Far Cry 3 look better but barely considering Crysis is 5 years old. I feel like we have hit a point of diminishing return and to get to Samaritan / Square Enix Demo graphics we might need 5x the power of GTX680. I don't think HD7950 CF or GTX670 SLI will be fast enough to even run a DX11 PC game looking like that. What do you guys think, will 2013 GPUs be a stop-gap before a real increase in 2014 because then we'll get 20nm Maxwell/HD9000?
  6. Zoso: "so the upgrade in the end won't cost me more than $50-$100 due to me getting the motherboard paid for by an outside party and selling my current hardware " Those are the best times to upgrade when people are willing to pay so much $ for old outdated parts because they might be stuck on E6600 or something and want a quick Q9550 swap without getting a new mobo + DDR3. The price of DDR2 is astronomical now. I remember I sold Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 4GB sticks for only $40 when I moved from Q6600 to i7. For only $20, you can sign up for the Performance Tuning Protection Plan by Intel®. http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/ You'll be able to overclock to 4.8-5.0ghz @ 1.45V and not worry about killing your chip. Although the solder on IVB is crap, so you might want to desolder the chip to drop temps 10-20*C. Congrats on the new upgrade.
  7. Ya, you were sleeping 1. "12.11 brings a nearly across-the-board framerate increase due to architectural optimizations within the driver stack rather than title-specific enhancements. This has primarily been achieved through the use of better memory management, meaning AMD’s GCN cores are now able to use memory bandwidth more efficiently. (Hardware Canucks)". VLIW-4/5 architectures didn't have this inefficiency so it was not possible to improve their performance I bet. 2. Better late than never. I am guessing AMD finally got proper access to the game code after MOH:W becoming an AMD Gaming Evolved title. In fairness NV didn't improve performance in a large number of games either where it trails HD7970. BF3 was one of the most popular games on the PC and that's why it hurt AMD way more than having faster performance in 10+ games like Crysis, Metro 2033, Alan Wake, Sleeping Dogs, Dirt Showdown, Sniper Elite V2, Witcher 2, Anno 2070, Serious Sam 3, etc. I think this sets up a more interesting race between HD8000 series and GTX700. We'll find out tomorrow if NV is faster in Medal of Honor Warfighter or if AMD fixed its issues in Frostbite 2.0. Keep in mind Nexuiz is a CryEngine game and while NV was faster in Crysis 2 initially, once AMD got access to CryEngine, AMD is now faster in Crysis 2 and Nexuiz, both based on CryEngine. I think the performance is very much impacted by who gets access to early code and optimizes for it and NV did it much better than AMD for BF3 Hopefully NV will respond with lower prices, its own game bundles or driver improvements. Great to see fierce competition for gamer's dollars this holiday season
  8. Normally I don't care about driver releases or game bundles but AMD is firing on all cylinders. I hope NV matches with its own game bundles or driver increases or price drops, which would result in for stronger competition for gamers! :)
  9. TechPowerUp just did a driver review. http://www.techpower...ormance/23.html AMD is now faster in BF3 than NV at each price level: http://www.techpower...formance/5.html The relative improvements for each card overall are: HD 7750: +4% HD 7770: +5% HD 7850: +4% HD 7870: +10% HD 7950: +7% HD 7970: +7% HD 7970 GHz: +7% EDIT: I probably should have moved this into the AMD Videocard section. Mods please move it there if you feel it's more appropriate BF3 performance increases are massive: Reviews that tested the driver increases: 1) AnandTech 2) Hexus.net 3) TechPowerup 4) Legit Reviews
  10. AMD Announces Never Settle Catalyst 12.11 Driver Update AMD announced what it calls the "Never Settle" driver, a version of Catalyst Software suite, which could potentially tilt the price-performance ratios in its favor, against NVIDIA. The new drivers carry the canonical version number 12.11, and target AMD Radeon 7000 series GPUs, specifically those based on the Graphics CoreNext architecture, such as HD 7750, HD 7770 GHz Ed., HD 7850, HD 7870 GHz Ed., HD 7950, HD 7950 BE, HD 7970, HD 7970 GHz Ed., and HD 7990; and mobile Radeon HD 7700M series, HD 7800M series, and HD 7900M series. Catalyst 12.11 promises up to 15% performance improvements in the most modern games, such as Battlefield 3, DiRT Showdown, Sleeping Dogs, Medal of Honor: Warfighter, and more. With these improvements, AMD is claiming performance leads for all its top products, over NVIDIA's. The Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition, for example, gains 20% performance advantage over GeForce GTX 680; HD 7970 gains 15% over GTX 670, and HD 7950 20% over GTX 660 Ti. The Never Settle driver, along with its complete release notes and download links will be updated a little later today. http://www.techpower...ver-Update.html and even better, FREE GAMES! AMD Also Announces Never Settle Game Bundles In addition to the Never Settle Catalyst 12.11 drivers that give a shot of NOX to Radeon 7000 series GPUs, AMD unveiled the "Never Settle" Game Bundles. With each purchase of Radeon HD 7900 series, HD 7800 series, or HD 7700 series graphics card purchase, you get Steam coupons to a up to three games, with a guaranteed 20% off on purchase of Medal of Honor: Warfighter, on Steam. With every Radeon HD 7900 series product (HD 7990, HD 7970 GHz Ed., HD 7970, HD 7950 BE, and HD 7950), you get Steam coupons to FarCry 3, Hitman: Ascension, and Sleeping Dogs. With two HD 7800 or HD 7700 series products, you get coupons to FarCry 3 and Hitman: Ascension; with one HD 7800 series or HD 7700 series product, you get a coupon to FarCry 3. The promotion could run all the way through the Holiday season. http://www.techpower...me-Bundles.html
  11. Skr13, a lot of new games are launching within a month (NFS: MW, BO2, Assassin's Creed 3, Hitman Absolution and Medal of Honor Warfighter). That's 5 new data points for seeing how the cards perform. Even Medal of Honor in 2 days is another data point for Frostbite 2.0 engine. You can compare HD7950 vs. 660Ti to see if either GPU runs it faster and also how also 7970GE vs. 680 stack up because that's where HD7950 OC will end up. Do you guys get the promotion for Sleeping Dogs with HD7950s?
  12. Hey, sorry I didn't catch the part where you already had the cooler. If you intend to use it, then it seems any HD7900 card is out of the question without taking off that shim. In general I find 300 EUR a lot of money for either GTX660Ti or HD7950. HD7950 is now 9 months old. Do you guys have any sales around Xmas holidays or New Years in Portugal? I mean is there a good time to buy a GPU in your country, or do they stay priced high for the entire generation (other than NV/AMD official MSRP price drops) before being discontinued once a new generation of cards launches?
  13. My main reference to 32 ROP / 384 bit interface of 7950 is not to compare it to ROPs/memory bus of GTX660Ti but how each respective card compares to their flagship family card: 7950 vs. 7970 GE and how GTX660Ti compares to 680. The 7950 is a slightly cut-down 7970 card on the shader & TMU side. That means with overclocking, you can surpass the flagship 7970 card since key backbone of the GPU is intact. GTX660Ti is a physically crippled SKU in terms of ROPs and memory bus compared to GTX670/680 cards. Therefore, you cannot really overclock it on air easily to pass the flagship NV card. That's the main point I was making and for this reason you cannot really compare "Kepler to GCN" in this instance so broadly since GTX660Ti is a 25% neutered Kepler chip in ROP/memory controllers, but HD7950 is more like a factory underclocked GCN card with slightly less shaders and TMUs. If you are going to buy an AC fan, then 7950 makes even more sense since 200-250W of power dissipation would make GCN overclocking a breeze. The full intact ROPs and memory bus of the 7950 is what allows it to match a GTX680 once it reaches 1050mhz. GTX660Ti can only dream of that and 7950 often scales to 1150-1200mhz on a good cooler. Of course if you have no intention of overclocking, then it's not really important. Think of it this way, HD7950 is just 5-6% slower than 7970 is at 925mhz GPU clock. The more your overclock it, the more it performs like a flagship card. I think you are thinking too hard about it. If you value power consumption, won't overclock, want a peace of mind of NV drivers since AMD drivers seem to have given you problems, go with GTX660Ti. If you want to overclock for way more performance and willing to increase power consumption for that extra speed, then the 7950 is the faster card without question. HD7950 beats HD7970GE and GTX680 when overclocked. If that's not a selling point for its value proposition, I don't know what else is: http://www.techpower...Vapor-X/31.html For next generation games if HD7970GE and GTX680 are too slow, then GTX660Ti has no chance. In terms of future-proofing I can't think of any reason why 660Ti will be better than a 7950 since it's not faster in any GPU demanding game I can think of besides BF3 by a hair or some game that uses PhysX like BL2 or Batman AC. If you overclock the 7950, it will beat GTX660Ti probably 95% of the time since 7970 GE is faster than GTX680 and 7950 OC can surpass both of those. If you won't overclock the 7950, at 880-900mhz factory after-market versions, it's exactly as fast as GTX660Ti after-market cards are but uses a bit more power, although 660Ti performs worse with MSAA. The reason I asked you why you bothered getting the AC after-market cooler, wouldn't it make sense to buy a quiet GTX670 card like Gigabyte Windforce 3x with that $? Those coolers aren't cheap. Personally I'd rather spend that 50-60 Euro on a faster GPU like the GTX670.
  14. What will make HD7950 faster than GTX660Ti is not 3GB vs. 2GB of VRAM, but ROPs, memory bandwidth (MSAA) and overclocking. The 'future-proofness' comes from 32 ROPs and 384-bit bus of the flagship HD7970 daddy. That means, the 7950 can be overclocked to surpass GTX680/7970 GE in performance, something that can't be done with the GTX660Ti. If you don't plan on overclocking, grab the GTX660Ti. Remember you are comparing HD7950 to GTX660Ti. So you cannot say that Kepler has an advantage in ABCD since now you are comparing 2 non-flagship GPUs. At stock speeds, 880-900mhz factory-preoverclocked 7950s are as fast as factory pre-overclocked 660Tis, but overclocked, there is no contest. Whether you want the added power consumption is up to you. Here is NCIX's comparison of HD7950 vs. GTX660Ti in BF3: HD7950 and GTX660Ti are actually just 1-5 fps apart in BF3: http://techreport.co...card-reviewed/4 But once you overclock, HD7950 should be no slower than GTX660Ti OC in BF3: http://www.hardocp.c...s_670_hd_7950/3 BTW, with latest drivers, NV is no longer faster in BF3: http://www.hardocp.c...o_card_review/5 Crysis 2, NV has no advantage at all for GTX660Ti over 7950, actually the 7950 is faster: http://www.xbitlabs....ti/10_crys2.png Moving on to other games, AC3 should be a piece of cake since it's a console port, same for BO2. BF4 is too far away. Crysis 3 supposedly will murder GPUs so even GTX680 won't be enough to max it out if the CEO of Crytek's statements are true. I would never buy any GPU to future-proof for Crysis 3. When CryTek truly decides to make a GPU demanding game, even a GTX690 will be crippled like 8800GTX SLI was when Crysis 1 launched. Worst case you could always resell the 7950/660Ti and buy a next generation GPU for Crysis 3 if it is really that demanding. GTA5 is also not launching until spring 2013 but with mods I can see that game using more than 2GB VRAM. Not sure how sales are where you live or you could try to see if HD7970 or GTX670 hit 300 EUR this holiday season. You are buying at the end of this generation so the value proposition isn't there without a large sale. You didn't mention if PhysX is important to you. It's a cool perk for Borderlands 2, although there is a way to enable it via a .ini hack and force it to the CPU but NV cards will still run it faster.The question is with how horribly unoptimized GTA IV was, will HD7950/660Ti even be able to run GTA V with mods maxed out? Hmm.... Really, to me the defining characteristics between 7950 and 660Ti are overclocking and more consistent performance in a wider variety of games for the 7950 with or without MSAA. For example, Dirt Showdown, Sniper Elite V2, Sleeping Dogs. In all of those the 7950 is much faster. Hitman Absolution will also use Global Illumination similar to Dirt Showdown. OCed vs. OCed the HD7950 wins easily with performance more similar to GTX670 OC. If you are not going to overclock, an after-market 7950 is about as fast as the MSI Power Edition 660Ti bu the NV card would offer slightly lower power consumption. I wouldn't waste any $ extra on 3GB GTX660Ti as a stock GTX660Ti isn't fast enough to take advantage of 3GB of VRAM. I wouldn't get an HD7950 and then get an AC after-market solution. Might as well get a quiet 7950 like Gigabyte Windforce 3x. Alternatively, just wait another 6 months for next generation as NV might offer GTX680 level of performance for $349 (349 EUR?) if the larger Kepler GK110 occupies the flagship spot. It really depends if you need a card to play games this winter or not HD7950 @ 925mhz is just 7% slower than GTX670: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2012/test-amd-radeon-hd-7950-mit-925-mhz/3/ MSI TwinFrozr 3 or Gigabyte Windforce 3x 7950s should be able to overclock to 1050mhz on stock voltage or well below 1.175V. I wouldn't get any of the GPU Boost versions, besides the Vapor-X 7950. If you have had driver issues with AMD cards, then go with NV for your own peace of mind.
  15. Nice card! I wish we got some of those Chinese companies to sell these uniquely designed cards in North America.